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Thanks for the tip, Gary. I'll go to the link.  HewS

On 7/28/08, glapook@pacbell.net  wrote:
>
>  You can get a copy of the Air Almanac, it is easier to use in flight
>  than the
>  Nautical Almanac, you get it on disk from the Naval Observatory, cost
>  thirty one bucks, here is the link:
>
>  http://aa.usno.navy.mil/publications/docs/ord_info.php
>
>  Just print out the pages you need for your flight, about 7 pages of
>  interpolation and correction tables (which don't change and only need
>  to
>  be printed out one time) and two daily pages for each day of your
>  trip.
>
>  gl
>
>
>  On Jul 28, 5:30 pm, "Hewitt Schlereth"  wrote:
>  > Hey, thanks for the thoroughgoing response. One reason for my interest
>  > was that I began to do celestial when I was living in Allentown PA in
>  > 1965 and got to talking with a neighbor. He turned out to be a
>  > navigator for JAL. He gave me an expired Air Nautical Almanac - these
>  > were the days when it was published in three installments; red
>  > binding, white binding, blue binding, one every four months.
>  >
>  > Anyway, I dug out my high school spherical trig book, bought a surplus
>  > aircraft sextant and started taking sights  from the roof, coached and
>  > critiqued by my neighbor when he was home between trips.
>  >
>  > I took celestial to sea when I moved to the east coast in 1969 and
>  > it's been with me ever since.
>  >
>  > Thanks again, Hewitt
>  >
>
> > On 7/28/08, glap...@pacbell.net  wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  >
>
> > >  Airlines no longer use flight navigators, they have been replaced by
>  > >  specialized navigation equipment. In the past
>  > >  Kollsman periscopic sextants were used which extended through the top
>  > >  of the
>  > >  fuselage in B-52s, C-130s, other military planes and also in Boeing
>  > >  707s, and DC-8s. Airline Flight Navigators used celestial for oceanic
>  > >  flight up until the early '70s and the military used celestial
>  > >  routinely
>  > >  through the  '90s ( they figured the Soviets would turn off their
>  > >  radio
>  > >  navigational aids in the event of war.) It is still in the current Air
>  > >  Force navigation manual,  AFPAM 11-216. Flight navigators were
>  > >  replaced when the Boeing 747 came along with inertal navigation
>  > >  systems in the late '60s. And now GPS provides the specialized
>  > >  navigation equipment that allows tranoceanic operations without a
>  > >  navigator.
>  >
>  > >  Federal Aviation Regulation (FAR) 121.389 still requires a flight
>  > >  navigator unless the pilot can fix his position every hour and pilots
>  > >  can now do that with INS or GPS. I have attached the regulation and a
>  > >  link to its source.
>  >
>  > >  gl
>  > >  Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
>  > >  PART 121�OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: DOMESTIC, FLAG, AND SUPPLEMENTAL
>  > >  OPERATIONS
>  > >  Subpart M�Airman and Crewmember Requirements
>  >
>  > >  Browse Previous | Browse Next
>  > >  � 121.389   Flight navigator and specialized navigation equipment.
>  >
>  > >  (a) No certificate holder may operate an airplane outside the 48
>  > >  contiguous States and the District of Columbia, when its position
>  > >  cannot be reliably fixed for a period of more than 1 hour, without�
>  >
>  > >  (1) A flight crewmember who holds a current flight navigator
>  > >  certificate; or
>  >
>  > >  (2) Specialized means of navigation approved in accordance with
>  > >  �121.355 which enables a reliable determination to be made of the
>  > >  position of the airplane by each pilot seated at his duty station.
>  >
>  > >  (b) Notwithstanding paragraph (a) of this section, the Administrator
>  > >  may also require a flight navigator or special navigation equipment,
>  > >  or both, when specialized means of navigation are necessary for 1 hour
>  > >  or less. In making this determination, the Administrator considers�
>  >
>  > >  (1) The speed of the airplane;
>  >
>  > >  (2) Normal weather conditions en route;
>  >
>  > >  (3) Extent of air traffic control;
>  >
>  > >  (4) Traffic congestion;
>  >
>  > >  (5) Area of navigational radio coverage at destination;
>  >
>  > >  (6) Fuel requirements;
>  >
>  > >  (7) Fuel available for return to point of departure or alternates;
>  >
>  > >  (8) Predication of flight upon operation beyond the point of no
>  > >  return; and
>  >
>  > >  (9) Any other factors he determines are relevant in the interest of
>  > >  safety.
>  >
>  > >  (c) Operations where a flight navigator or special navigation
>  > >  equipment, or both, are required are specified in the operations
>  > >  specifications of the air carrier or commercial operator.
>  >
>  > >  [Doc. No. 10204, 37 FR 6464, Mar. 30, 1972, as amended by Amdt. 121�
>  > >  178, 47 FR 13316, Mar. 29, 1982]
>  >
>  > >  Link to regulation:
>  >
>
> > >  http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=f4449a9057da...
>
> >
>  > >  On Jul 28, 7:53 am, "Hewitt Schlereth"  wrote:
>  > >  > Hi Gary -
>  >
>  > >  > I'd probably missed the answer to this question because I picked up
>  > >  > the thread in the middle:  Is celestial part of your routine duty of
>  > >  > navigating an airliner or is it something you do for its own sake?
>  >
>  > >  > Thanx,  Hewitt
>  >
>  > >  > PS  It's been an absorbing thread to follow.  Keep it coming. HewS
>  >
>  > > > On 7/28/08, glap...@pacbell.net  wrote:
>  >
>  > >  > >   For example, using the page from the Air
>  > >  > >  Almanac found on page 206, a day when the H.P is 60', and an altitude
>  > >  > >  of 36� we find the parallax in altitude correction to be 48' and this
>  >
>  > >  > > would be the correction to use with a bubble sextant. (Page 206 of
>  > >  > >  AFPAM 11-216.)
>  >
>  > >  > >  Additionally, formulas for these correction are found on pages 393 and
>  > >  > >  394 of the same manual.
>  >
>  > >  > >  gl
>  >
>  > >  > >  On Jul 28, 5:24 am, glap...@pacbell.net wrote:
>  > >  > >  > One more thing to discuss before giving an example of in flight celnav
>  > >  > >  > is corrections to sights taken in flight. We discussed this back on
>  > >  > >  > December 14, 2007 in the thread "additional corrections... (just
>  > >  > >  > search "additional corrections") which include an excerpt from AFPAM
>  > >  > >  > 11-216. You should download the entire manual 
here:http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFPAM11-216.pdf
>  >
>  > >  > >  > Review chapters 10 through 13.
>  >
>  > >  > >  > I want to add to the manual on this.
>  >
>  > >  > >  > Coriolis can be handled in a number of ways. You can move the A.P. to
>  > >  > >  > the right (northern hemisphere) 90� to the course (track) prior to
>  > >  > >  > plotting the LOPs by the amount of coriolis correction shown in the
>  > >  > >  > table in the Air Almanac and in H.O. 249 (previously posted). Or you
>  > >  > >  > can move the final fix the same way. Or, the most complicated way, is
>  > >  > >  > to make a correction to each Hc by multiplying the coriolis correction
>  > >  > >  > by the sine of the relative Zn, the Polhemus makes this relatively
>  > >  > >  > painless.
>  >
>  > >  > >  > Rhumb line correction is avoided by steering by directional gyro
>  > >  > >  > during the two minute shooting period and this is what is normally
>  > >  > >  > done anyway.
>  >
>  > >  > >  > Wander correction is small at low airspeeds and it can be avoided by
>  > >  > >  > making sure the heading is the same at the end of the shot as it was
>  > >  > >  > at the beginning of the shot. It doesn't matter how the heading
>  > >  > >  > changes during the shot (within reason) as the errors will average
>  > >  > >  > out.
>  >
>  > >  > >  > Ground speed correction can also be avoided by making sure the
>  > >  > >  > airspeed is the same at the end as at the beginning, any changes in
>  > >  > >  > between will also average out.
>  >
>  > >  > >  > Auto pilots do a good job of maintaining airspeed and heading for the
>  > >  > >  > two minute shooting period so eliminating the need for the above
>  > >  > >  > corrections.
>  >
>  > >  > >  > The AFPAM states you must figure the refraction correction based on
>  > >  > >  > the actual Hs as opposed to using the refraction correction based upon
>  > >  > >  > the Hc but this is a needless refinement and keeps you from completing
>  > >  > >  > the pre computation prior to the shot. Look at the refraction table in
>  > >  > >  > H.O. 249 (previously posted) and you will see for altitudes exceeding
>  > >  > >  > 10� that the brackets are at least two degrees wide. So only in the
>  > >  > >  > rare cases where the altitude is almost exactly at the break point
>  > >  > >  > could you come up with a different refraction correction using Hc
>  > >  > >  > rather than Hs and even then it could only be a difference of one
>  > >  > >  > minute of altitude. For example the break point between a 5'
>  > >  > >  > correction and a 4' refraction correction is 12� so if Hs were 11� 50'
>  > >  > >  > and Hc were 12� 15' then using Hc would get you a 4' correction and
>  > >  > >  > using Hs would get you a 5' correction. This is actually only 1/2 of a
>  > >  > >  > minute error because the corrections are rounded to the nearest full
>  > >  > >  > minute.
>  >
>  > >  > >  > The parallax in altitude correction for the moon is printed on each
>  > >  > >  > page of the Air Almanac based upon the horizontal parallax (H.P.) for
>  > >  > >  > the moon on that particular day. This parallax varies with the
>  > >  > >  > distance to the moon and moves in lock step with the S.D. since they
>  > >  > >  > are both related to the distance to the moon. The H.P varies from 54'
>  > >  > >  > to 61' during the year. For example, using the page from the Air
>  > >  > >  > Almanac found on page 206, a day when the H.P is 60', and an altitude
>  > >  > >  > of 36� we find the parallax in altitude correction to be 48' and this
>  > >  > >  > would be the correction to use with a bubble sextant. If using a
>  > >  > >  > marine sextant and shooting the lower limb we would add the S.D. of
>  > >  > >  > 16' to produce a total correction (but not including refraction yet)
>  > >  > >  > of 64'. Subtract the refraction correction of 1' gives the total
>  > >  > >  > correction of 63'. Using the correction table in the Nautical almanac
>  > >  > >  > for the identical parameters you get 63.5'. The Nautical Almanac moon
>  > >  > >  > correction table includes a procedure for using it with a bubble
>  > >  > >  > sextant and what this does is just backs out the S.D. correction which
>  > >  > >  > is included in the correction table and not needed for a bubble
>  > >  > >  > observation. Using this procedure produces a correction for a bubble
>  > >  > >  > observation of 47.2' which compares with the 48' from the Air Almanac.
>  >
>  > >  > >  > Remember to reverse the signs of these corrections and apply them to
>  > >  > >  > Hc to produce Hp (pre computed altitude) which you then compare
>  > >  > >  > directly with Hs to compute intercept.
>  >
>  > >  > >  > gl
>  >
>
> > ...
>  >
>  > read more �
>  >
>

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