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Re: Exercise #14 Multi-Moon LOP's
From: Brad Morris
Date: 2009 May 1, 15:52 -0400
From: Brad Morris
Date: 2009 May 1, 15:52 -0400
Hi Jeremy You are going to have to resend that file, it is somehow corrupted. At least for me! Reworking the system with a changed DR simply changed the intercepts and the azimuths? Sounds just like old Saint-Hilaire is at work again. Best Regards Brad -----Original Message----- From: NavList@fer3.com [mailto:NavList@fer3.com] On Behalf Of jcaoy@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 3:45 PM To: NavList@fer3.com Subject: [NavList 8126] Re: Exercise #14 Multi-Moon LOP's George wrote: 1. As we've seen before, when looking at scatter, a single result tells us almost nothing. It may "hit the spot" just by chance. Consistency is what's needed. 2. We don't know in detail how that program handled the data it was given. Jeremy has told us it was fed with a GPS position as DR, with known course and speed, and he " plugged each moonline ... as individual moon LOP's.". Without understanding what went on in detail, let me make a guess. Given an individual position line, and a DR position, what could a computer make of it? It might well do its best, by finding the most probable spot on that LOP, which would be the nearest point on that line to the DR position. In which case, it would inevitably end up with a position very close to that DR. And then, it would do the same for all the other position lines, and somehow average the result. End result, a position close to the DR! I've suggested to Jeremy that next time he tries such an exercise, he plugs in deliberately-different trial-positions for his DR, to see if the answer changes. I wonder, if he had offered the computer just one "moonline", what would the result have been then? Now, I don't know how that program operates, internally, and I doubt whether Jeremy or Frank know either. It seems worthwhile, then, to ask some probing questions about the value of such an exercise, before building on to such an insecure foundation, as Frank has done. Healthy scepticism is called for, here as elsewhere. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To the first point, I will make this a priority experiment on my next trip which should offer excellent oppurtunities to shoot rapid fire fix data on a variety of bodies and at a variety of latitude in both the northern and southern hemispheres. I should also have a variety of courses both north/south and east/west. I suspect that the moon will be the best body as the azimuth changes so rapidly, but we will see what the data shows once I shoot them. To the second, since I don't have any new data, I just re-crunched the old numbers. I took the original 11 moon lines and skewed the DR position from the accurate 1900 LT GPS fix and made it to the nearest whole latitude and longitude to see how the program worked the lines. It did as I suspected, gave me greater intercepts and different azimuths. In any case, I have attached a PDF sheet of the new work by SkyMate Pro and yes, it did give the exact same fix as my original GPS fix based DR. As to what happens when I plug in just one moon LOP, well not much, it draws the LOP, and doesn't even attempt to give a fix or EP. When I put the first and last lines into play, the program gives me a fix of 14 deg 18.0'N and 143 deg-00.7'E which isn't aweful, but certainly shows a far greater error than when all of the lines are calculated. I think that George may be barking up the wrong tree in a way. Far more important than the DR position used in this multi-shot sight of a single body over time, is the accuracy of the course and speed used to advance/retard the lines. This will grow far more important as the time spread between the first and last shots increasing. The attached file shows the original solution on page 1, the solution with the DR changed, and lastly, when the SMG and CMG were changed slightly. Jeremy "Confidentiality and Privilege Notice The information transmitted by this electronic mail (and any attachments) is being sent by or on behalf of Tactronics; it is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee named above and may constitute information that is privileged or confidential or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not the addressee or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to same, you are not authorized to retain, read, copy or disseminate this electronic mail (or any attachments) or any part thereof. If you have received this electronic mail (and any attachments) in error, please call us immediately and send written confirmation that same has been deleted from your system. Thank you." --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Navigation List archive: www.fer3.com/arc To post, email NavList@fer3.com To , email NavList-@fer3.com -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---