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Re: Old style lunar
From: Ken Muldrew
Date: 2004 Dec 14, 16:31 -0700
From: Ken Muldrew
Date: 2004 Dec 14, 16:31 -0700
On 13 Dec 2004, Alexandre Eremenko wrote: >For the discussion of Thompson's observations >it would be desirable to compare the data on the specific >dates of his observations. These are in 1800 and 1801 almanacs. >I am not sure who has them, but my impression that someone >from this list has 1800 almanac. Here is some more information from Thompson's two lunars of November 26, 1800 (I posted his times and measured distances for Altair and Aldebaran previously). I believe (but am not positive) that his position on this day was 50?47'N 114?16'W (give or take a minute). This position comes from following his course on a topographic map. Thompson's latitude comes from a meridian altitude of Rigel from the same night. (s)=sun, (*)=star, ))=moon Thompson's notes contain the following information so that (presumably) he can recalculate his lunar at a later time if necessary. Nov. 26, 1800 - Aquilae (Altair) ? ? " (s)RA 16h11 13 (*)RA 19h41 3 dec 8 20 40 Dec 8 22 25 N ))RA 17h36 25 Dec 7 3 45 N SD 15 5 HP 55 24 (*)TA 10 54 19 AA 10 59 58 ))TA 46 44 9 AA 46 6 44 D 81 11 20 +3'48", -4', +2" 8:53:05 81?17'45" 8:53:55 81?17'45" 8:54:38 81?18'00" 8:55:20 81?18'30" 8:56:00 81?18'45" 8:56:52 81?19'30" 8:57:38 81?19'15" 8:58:29 81?19'30" ------------------ 8:55:45 81?18'37" + 8:00 - 22'22" ------------------ 9:03:45 80?56'15" [the time correction above comes from an average of his two time sights given further below] long 113 49 15 W lat 50 47 24 N Nov. 26, 1800 - Aldebaran ? ? " (*)RA 4h24 29 dec 16 5 46 Dec 16 5 46 N ))RA 17h27 48 Dec 7 32 30 N SD 15 5 HP 55 22 (*)TA 40 6 16 AA 40 7 29 ))TA 46 39 8 AA 46 1 35 D 48 15 35 +37", -12'3", +9" 9:01:43 49?5'45" 9:02:52 49?5'15" 9:03:20 49?5'00" 9:04:15 49?4'45" 9:05:12 49?4'15" 9:06:10 49?4'00" 9:07:08 49?3'45" 9:07:58 49?3'15" ------------------ 9:04:47 49?04'30" + 8:00 - 22'22" ------------------ 9:12:47 48?42'08" long 114 33 0 W lat 50 47 24 N Average longitude 114?11'7"W Double altitudes (reflected altitudes) time sight: Capella 8:32:20 98?58' 0" 8:33:10 99?13' 0" 8:34:00 99?26'45" ----------------- 8:33:10 99?12'35" 7:54 -22'22" ----------------- 8:41:04 98?50'13" Lyra 8:41:45 49?46'30 8:42:30 49?33'46 8:43:10 49?22' 0 ----------------- 8:42:28 49?34' 5 8:07 -22'22 ----------------- 8:50:35 49?11'43 From a 1796 star chart: Capella: RA 5h51 58 dec 45 46 50 lyra: RA 18h30 10 dec 38 36 9 From the 1800 almanac: sun Nov 26 RA 16h8 14.3 dec 20 58 58 S EOT 12 24.6 Nov 27 RA 16h12 30.6 dec 21 10 06 S EOT 12 5.0 SD 16'16" hourly motion 2'32" moon Nov 26 midnight RA 15h15 dec 6 24 N SD 15'7" HP 55'30" Nov 27 noon RA 20h47 dec 9 15 N SD 15'3" HP 55'15" moon-altair distance Nov 26 15:00 80:29:28, 18:00 81?45'33" (1800 almanac) True values: 80?28'26" 81?44'31" (Frank Reed's online almanac) New longitude: 114?26' 9" moon-aldebaran distance Nov 26 15:00 49 11 22, 18:00 47?40'54" (1800 almanac) True values: 49?12'08" 47?41'40" (Frank Reed's online almanac) New longitude: 114?55'59" Thompson was pretty lucky with the poor almanac data of 1800 as it put him within 5 minutes of his true location whereas the better data from Frank's almanac puts him 25 minutes too far West. It's odd that his Aldebaran shot puts him so far off since that appeared to be the better sight (Fred Hebard posted a graph containing these two lunars a few days ago--the Altair data had a few bad points but the Aldebaran data was nice and smooth). I wonder if his DR put him out? Comparing his calculated altitudes to those given by the USNO celestial navigation data site, Thompson has Aldebaran too high by 2 degrees and Altair too low by 2 degrees. That seems like an awfully large error. Unfortunately his account has been updated by all his celestial sights so we don't get to see the original DR position (although now that I think about it, perhaps one could work backward from his calculated altitudes to get the DR position). His lunar altitudes are much better (within a few minutes of the USNO data), but then we expect them to be worse due to the error in the old almanac. Ken Muldrew.