NavList:
A Community Devoted to the Preservation and Practice of Celestial Navigation and Other Methods of Traditional Wayfinding
Re: grounding without explanation.
From: hellos
Date: 2006 Jul 19, 08:22 -0500
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From: hellos
Date: 2006 Jul 19, 08:22 -0500
<<When the time comes to pass that gasoline and diesel fuel supplies
are rationed or priced out of reach, >>
Out of reach is a relative thing. In the EU, fuels have been "in
reach" while being twice the US market price. This should tell us that in the
US, $6/gallon is feasible. And that in the EU, by a simple government tax base
shift, fuel prices can drip in half to US levels. Again, very feasible.
But even then, "out of reach" is the catch.
Gasoline and diesel can be built without crude oil, and marketed profitably at
$5/gallon. That's also been known commercially for decades. So what we can be
fairly certain about, is that US prices will rise to about $5/gallon, at which
point we can build all the fuel we want or need for another 300 years. (There's
a 250-year supply in the Canadian oil sands, and a 400-year supply in the US
with domestic coal, and there are processes to synthesize premium light sweet
crude from organic garbage currently on line, with no limit aside from how much
garbage can we make)
<< I expect to see the return of steam powered vessels and sail
powered fishing vessels>>
Why? The cost of sending air cargo, by the container, from JFK to Beijing,
is about $2/kilo. I'd like quotes on sea cargo but I sispect in both cases the
cost of fuel, even doubling, will still be nothing compared to the market value
of "speed" and the overall costs. Remember that sailing vessels are unreliable,
and fishing fleets need reliability. And steam still needs fuel, eventually that
means competing for coal or petroleum liquids, unless you use nuclear steam with
its own problems. Nuclear is cheap and convenient...until you price in the
aftercare for 50,000 years of waste management, or terrorist opportunities with
the wastes before then.
. <<Biodiesel although an option will also have to be
rationed due to limited supplies and likely only available for rescue
craft. >> Not at all. Biodiesel is great waste management but it has
practical limits as a commercial system. Bring the other alternatives online
commercially--as they are being brought online already--and biodiesel becomes a
kludge for the home user, who can "invest" their labor and scrounged materials
for free. If you have to get those plant oils commercially, competing against
$5-11 per gallon for the food oils, it loses some appeal.
<<Canals will be refurbished and put back into service. >>
Unlikely. Air transport requires less investment in real estate and capital
equipment. Canals are expensive to maintain and occupy lots of land.
<<...I think we can be certain that petroleum based products
will be more expensive if they are even available. >>
I'd totally disagree, except about "expensive". Yes, costs will rise
to accomodate the $5/gallon prices. In 1970 gasoline was 28c/gallon and rent was
$100/month for a furnished apartment. So now, gasoline has risen a bit more than
tenfold and...so have rents. Gasoline has just kept up with inflation, more or
less. Ignoring the whole question of whether the whole world has gone mad with
relative prices, but as gasoline costs more, to some extent the market for
petroleum products and gas hogs goes UP. In the US it is par of conspicious
consumption. The same people who complain bitterly about how much it costs to
care for their lawns (perhaps the original symbol of conspicuous consumption)
will still buy four SUVs, two of them being "first cars" for their kids in high
school. The rest of us will have to manage with scooters instead of
cars.
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