NavList:
A Community Devoted to the Preservation and Practice of Celestial Navigation and Other Methods of Traditional Wayfinding
Re: A question for the geodisists
From: Richard B. Langley
Date: 2013 Dec 17, 22:33 -0400
From: Richard B. Langley
Date: 2013 Dec 17, 22:33 -0400
Did someone call for a geodesist? ;-)
This article might help:
http://www2.unb.ca/gge/Resources/gpsworld.january97.pdf
It really depends on the datum AND map grid used. See Figure 1 in particular.
And as for differences between astronomically defined coordinates and
geodetic coordinates referred to, say, WGS84 (nominally geocentric), there
may be differences in the Greenwich meridian used (one through an actual
telescope at Greenwich used in the past for definition of GMT or one about
100 m to the east in the case of the WGS84 0-degree meridian). There will
also be small differences due to deflection of the vertical and polar motion.
-- Richard (Langley)
On Tuesday, December 17, 2013,351, at 8:45 PM, Gary LaPook wrote:
> Well, this pretty explains why.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geodesy
>
> gl
>
> From: Chris Presmeg <0886045615{at}neomail.co.za>
> To: garylapook---.net
> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 12:56 PM
> Subject: [NavList] Re: A question for the geodisists
>
>
> What has Geodesy to do with it?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gary LaPook
> To: CHRISTOPHER PRESMEG
> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:07 PM
> Subject: [NavList] A question for the geodisists
>
> On July 2, 1937 Amelia Earhart was attempting to find Howland island. Her
navigator, Fred Noonan, was using celestial navigation to fly the standard
single line of position landfall approach to the island. (see:
https://sites.google.com/site/fredienoonan/discussions/navigation-to-howland-island
)
>
> The Pacific Sailing Directions (1885) gives the location of Howland as 0°
49' north, 176° 40' west. Bowditch (1920) gives it as 0° 49' 00" north, 176°
43' 09" west. Bowditch (1938) gives it as 0° 48' north, 176° 38' west. This
is still listed as the correct coordinates in H.O. 126.
>
> Some have argued that Noonan was working with the old coordinates and was
aiming for 0° 49' 00" north, 176° 43' 09" west and so missed the island by
about five nautical miles. However, the correct coordinates were given on the
June 1937 edition of the local chart, 1198, so we know that the correct
coordinates had been found sometime prior to Earhart's departure from the
states so I would think that the updated information would have been provided
to her, considering that the orders to assist her came directly from the
White House and the importance of the correct information would have been
apparent to anyone.
>
> I have looked at Howland on Google Earth and it now appears that it has
moved to the east another mile! And the coordinates found on the most recent
chart now show it also at 0° 48' 00" north, 176° 37' west, one mile east
of he published location. How does the island keep moving? If this is the
true location then Noonan may have been aiming another NM too far to the
west. There is a note on the newest chart that says:
>
>
> So it appears that the most recent movement resulted from changing the datum
to WGS 84 but it seems to me that an adjustment of an entire mile to the
east is very large compared to other such shifts. So, if Noonan was using the
old coordinates would he have been aiming six NM west or just five? And I
think that I remember this correctly, that the geodetic gratical used for map
making places the landmarks where they would be placed by celestial
navigation. So if the island really is a at 176° 37' west then this might
help explain why they couldn't find the island. I thought that the greatest
difference between the geodetic and the geographic coordinates, as far as
celestial navigation is concerned, is in latitude and that changing to WGS 84
wouldn't have such a large effect on longitude. Can someone explain how
shifting from one datum to another would cause this type of error in the
celestial navigation.
>
>
>
> gl
>
> Attached File:
>
> (img/125785.howland pages from 1920 american_practical_navigator_an_epitome.jpg: Open and save)
>
> Attached File:
>
> (img/125785.howland position_page_1.jpg: Open and save)
>
> Attached File:
>
> (img/125785.howland position_page_2.jpg: Open and save)
>
> Attached File:
>
> (img/125785.howland ge.jpg: Open and save)
>
> Attached File:
>
> (img/125785.howland chart 83116.pdf: Open and save or View online)
>
> : https://navlist.net?i=125785
> : https://navlist.net?i=125799
>
>
> : https://navlist.net?i=125803
>
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| Richard B. Langley E-mail: lang@unb.ca |
| Geodetic Research Laboratory Web: http://gge.unb.ca/ |
| Dept. of Geodesy and Geomatics Engineering Phone: +1 506 453-5142 |
| University of New Brunswick Fax: +1 506 453-4943 |
| Fredericton, N.B., Canada E3B 5A3 |
| Fredericton? Where's that? See: http://www.fredericton.ca/ |
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